Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/20/14 vs. MIN, Lindros-LeClair HOF, Flyers-NYR Wrapup

You guys really disappointed me tonight

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/20/14 vs. MIN, Lindros-LeClair HOF, Flyers-NYR Wrapup
- bmeltzer

MIN is the best ES club in the league right now... Flyers near the bottom.

MIN is the best ES club in the league right now... Flyers near the bottom.
- Tomahawk

Minnesota is 6th, the Flyers are 18th. I care primarily about ES GF/GA ratios because that's really the bottom line that counts.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...nstRatio&viewName=summary

Yes, the Flyers have their work cut out for them.

Predictions on how long until we see a jersey thrown on the ice? I say five games.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 11/20/14 vs. MIN, Lindros-LeClair HOF, Flyers-NYR Wrapup
- bmeltzer

I really hope the ceremony is televised, and it's a well deserved honor for both guys. Hopefully next summer, Lindros will get into the Hall of Fame and we can see 88 hang from the rafters of the Wells Fargo Center.

Last night's "game" was an utter debacle.

Berube and Hextall are right to shred the players. Outside of the first line, and maybe Laughton and Bellemare, they sucked. There was piss poor execution and as the game went on they got outworked and outplayed by a wide margin. Only the sheer brilliance of Mason kept the game close on the scoreboard.

Vincent Lecavalier was terrible. Matt Read may as well have stayed in Philly. Wayne Simmonds was culpable for bad coverage on the first goal. Bryadon Coburn has continued to look terrible since his return from injury. Nick Grossmann didn't look much better. Sean Couturier had a rough night, including a very bad turnover that led to an odd man rush, and soon after the first goal. RJ Umberger looked like a corpse, until finally, Berube moved him to Couturier's line where they showed some life late in the game.

As bad as the players were, I'm going to toss some blame onto the coach. Berube said, after the game that the only guys that showed up were Giroux, Schenn, Voracek, Laughton and Mason. If that's the case, why did Laughton see 7 minutes of ice time, while Lecavalier (16:24) & Umberger (15:44) kept getting shift after shift? I don't care if they are vets, they're playing poor hockey and have been for awhile.

The coach has to do a better job of putting players in the right situations. That means you don't keep the highly ineffective VinnyBurger pair together. You don;t leave Simmonds at LW when he's clearly uncomfortable there and you have Read on the same line, who has played-and been effective-as a LW extensively over the past few years. You don't take the freshly recalled top prospect and jam him in between Rinaldo & VandeVelde and play him just 4 minutes through the first 2 periods.

It's a Catch-22. The players are, by and large, playing poorly. They have trouble executing routine and basic plays. They blow defensive coverage so often it's a sick joke. They get to running around in their own end and have no energy to win puck battles and push the offense the other way. They lack intensity at times and seemingly can't find it until they are in a deep hole with no way out. The leadership group on the team needs to start demanding more out of the rest of the roster.

But the coach has to do a better job of holding guys accountable and putting the guys he has in a better position to succeed. Lecavalier isn't going to have success playing with Umberger and VandeVelde. Akeson isn't going to be effective if he's with VandeVelde and Rinaldo. Simmonds needs somebody that can get him the puck in the cycling game, and get shots on so he can be a disruptive presence in front of the net. Couturier & Read need to have help in the defensive zone if they're going to improve their offensive games.

Minnesota is 6th, the Flyers are 18th. I care primarily about ES GF/GA ratios because that's really the bottom line that counts.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/te...nstRatio&viewName=summary

Yes, the Flyers have their work cut out for them.
- bmeltzer

I dunno... raw ES goal differential would lead you to believe that the Flyers are in the same class as the Ducks (11W) and better than the Canucks (13W), while the Flames are performing at the level of a top-5 team.

Working evenings this week so I have missed the last few games.

I wont say that its wrong, but its getting a little old these constant days of the GM or Snider going down and giving the team poop. Its been theme for years now.

You aren't turning mules into Camaros. Management built them, take some responsibility.

And honestly, I wont believe poop about a new direction or Hextall being angry if the same BS continues to happen.

Umberger 15:44
Rinaldo 7:31
LeCavalier 16:24

Laughton: 7 minutes
Bellemare: 9:20
Couturier: 15:43

Craig (frank)ing Berube. Woooo. You want to make real changes? Bench Umberger, fire the coach, or stop bringing up the young kids who get no ice time.

This team has no identity. Besides the first line, it looks like a bunch of random players thrown together to play pond hockey. No roles, no chemistry. Just out of sync guys skating around attempting to play hockey.

Do we have a shut down line? A true checking line? What purpose does someone like Vandevelde serve? Can he be dropped to the Phantoms and move Laughton up to give him and drop Umberger down?

By the way, Hartnell for Umberger might go down as one of the worse deals since Sharp was traded for Ellison.

Really surprised and perplexed at how little playing time Stolarz is getting down at the A. Obviously Zepp is playing very well but the guy really doesn't have much a future with this franchise and won't really aspire to be more than a backup in the big leagues at best.

At the very least i thought they'd split the starts in this Stollie's first season, but it's not even close to that.

Really surprised and perplexed at how little playing time Stolarz is getting down at the A. Obviously Zepp is playing very well but the guy really doesn't have much a future with this franchise and won't really aspire to be more than a backup in the big leagues at best.

At the very least i thought they'd split the starts in this Stollie's first season, but it's not even close to that.
- Yosimar89

I think they are trying to be a winner first year in the new arena with new season ticket holders blah blah and putting that above Stolarz development, at least early in the season

Emery needs to start another brawl to get them going, just like last year

Emery needs to start another brawl to get them going, just like last year
- CACannon18

Monday

I really hope the ceremony is televised, and it's a well deserved honor for both guys. Hopefully next summer, Lindros will get into the Hall of Fame and we can see 88 hang from the rafters of the Wells Fargo Center.

Last night's "game" was an utter debacle.

Berube and Hextall are right to shred the players. Outside of the first line, and maybe Laughton and Bellemare, they sucked. There was piss poor execution and as the game went on they got outworked and outplayed by a wide margin. Only the sheer brilliance of Mason kept the game close on the scoreboard.

Vincent Lecavalier was terrible. Matt Read may as well have stayed in Philly. Wayne Simmonds was culpable for bad coverage on the first goal. Bryadon Coburn has continued to look terrible since his return from injury. Nick Grossmann didn't look much better. Sean Couturier had a rough night, including a very bad turnover that led to an odd man rush, and soon after the first goal. RJ Umberger looked like a corpse, until finally, Berube moved him to Couturier's line where they showed some life late in the game.

As bad as the players were, I'm going to toss some blame onto the coach. Berube said, after the game that the only guys that showed up were Giroux, Schenn, Voracek, Laughton and Mason. If that's the case, why did Laughton see 7 minutes of ice time, while Lecavalier (16:24) & Umberger (15:44) kept getting shift after shift? I don't care if they are vets, they're playing poor hockey and have been for awhile.

The coach has to do a better job of putting players in the right situations. That means you don't keep the highly ineffective VinnyBurger pair together. You don;t leave Simmonds at LW when he's clearly uncomfortable there and you have Read on the same line, who has played-and been effective-as a LW extensively over the past few years. You don't take the freshly recalled top prospect and jam him in between Rinaldo & VandeVelde and play him just 4 minutes through the first 2 periods.

It's a Catch-22. The players are, by and large, playing poorly. They have trouble executing routine and basic plays. They blow defensive coverage so often it's a sick joke. They get to running around in their own end and have no energy to win puck battles and push the offense the other way. They lack intensity at times and seemingly can't find it until they are in a deep hole with no way out. The leadership group on the team needs to start demanding more out of the rest of the roster.

But the coach has to do a better job of holding guys accountable and putting the guys he has in a better position to succeed. Lecavalier isn't going to have success playing with Umberger and VandeVelde. Akeson isn't going to be effective if he's with VandeVelde and Rinaldo. Simmonds needs somebody that can get him the puck in the cycling game, and get shots on so he can be a disruptive presence in front of the net. Couturier & Read need to have help in the defensive zone if they're going to improve their offensive games.
- Jsaquella

Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't

On a positive note, I'm going to the game tonight and am really psyched to see Big E and Leclair be inducted into the Flyers Hall of Fame! Both incredibly deserving players

That game last night was absolutely pathetic. Hextall needs to break this group up. I'm officially done with Lecavalier. Couturier might be good in a few years but right now?? He only shows up maybe once a week and he is visibly the slowest player on the team which is hard to do. Read is just disinterested. Giroux lacks that killer instinct he used to have. Schenn is fine. Voracek is great. Mason has never been the problem. This team just flat out blows and this "core" group needs another shake up and quick or this season will be lost before we know it. I dont expect this team to contend for a championship but for god sakes be competetive, there is plenty of talent on this team to make the playoffs and not get embarrassed by the NYR. There I got it out...

Working evenings this week so I have missed the last few games.

I wont say that its wrong, but its getting a little old these constant days of the GM or Snider going down and giving the team poop. Its been theme for years now.

You aren't turning mules into Camaros. Management built them, take some responsibility.
- flyer_nutter

The more you yell, the better the players get. Van reaping the benefits of Torts tirades last year

With Hextall as pissed as he was..... I dont think its long before a trade is announced and/or Berube is fired. First guy to go.... Coburn.... wow, he is just god awful... Did Timonen really cover up his poor play that much???

Working evenings this week so I have missed the last few games.

I wont say that its wrong, but its getting a little old these constant days of the GM or Snider going down and giving the team poop. Its been theme for years now.

You aren't turning mules into Camaros. Management built them, take some responsibility.
- flyer_nutter

You cant tell me that these players as a team are as bad as they were last night. Even a team like Fla is more respectable right now. They absolutly have less talent.

Really surprised and perplexed at how little playing time Stolarz is getting down at the A. Obviously Zepp is playing very well but the guy really doesn't have much a future with this franchise and won't really aspire to be more than a backup in the big leagues at best.

At the very least i thought they'd split the starts in this Stollie's first season, but it's not even close to that.
- Yosimar89

To be honest, I am not surprised at all. In talking to members of the Flyers organization before the season about Stolarz, I was told in is going to be a very long development process with him. I was told he has come an extremely long way in his development since the summer of 2012 but had every bit as far still to go before being NHL ready.

I was also told at the time -- mind you, this when Knapp and Ouellette were still in camp and no one would openly say Zepp and Stolarz would be the Phantoms goalies no matter what the other two guys did -- that Stolarz was not an absolute slam dunk to open the season with the Phantoms.

I knew at that point it wasn't going to a 50-50 split between Zepp and Stolarz this year, especially early in the season.

At present, Zepp is simply the better goaltender by a large margin and deserves to start for the Phantoms. Thing is: even as raw as Stolarz still is, the organization has much, much more invested in his development than Connor Knapp and the eventual upside is higher. Oullette has really struggled in Reading.

As such, the plan right now seems to be to bring Stolarz along very slowly at the AHL level especially when there is a good veteran goaltender on hand in Zepp to handle the bulk of the starts this season. However, if it gets to a point where Stolarz would be used so infrequently for the Phantoms that the ECHL would make more sense just to get him playing time, then I think you might see him swap spots with Knapp for awhile. Stolarz has at least been good enough to develop in the Phantoms' backup role for awhile.

With Hextall as pissed as he was..... I dont think its long before a trade is announced and/or Berube is fired. First guy to go.... Coburn.... wow, he is just god awful... Did Timonen really cover up his poor play that much???
- GOA88

No, but Coburn has struggled horribly since his return to the linep.

You cant tell me that these players as a team are as bad as they were last night. Even a team like Fla is more respectable right now. They absolutly have less talent.
- GOA88

Half your forward lineup is vinny, akeson, rinaldo, VDV, laughton, and umberger. Your defense is the thinnest and arguably worst in the league. Florida is definitely more talented.

Half your forward lineup is vinny, akeson, rinaldo, VDV, laughton, and umberger. Your defense is the thinnest and arguably worst in the league. Florida is definitely more talented.
- rangerdanger94

GTFO until you learn hockey. Flyers will be in the playoffs and Florida will not. Despite what happened last night

Way too many players on this team seem to be just going through the motions: gliding instead of moving their feet, losing puck battles along the wall, losing focus in regards to positional play and showing little, if any, sense of urgency. If Berube really has a pair, both Umberger (who should waived) and Vinnie should be in the press box tonight.

I really hope the ceremony is televised, and it's a well deserved honor for both guys. Hopefully next summer, Lindros will get into the Hall of Fame and we can see 88 hang from the rafters of the Wells Fargo Center.

Last night's "game" was an utter debacle.

Berube and Hextall are right to shred the players. Outside of the first line, and maybe Laughton and Bellemare, they sucked. There was piss poor execution and as the game went on they got outworked and outplayed by a wide margin. Only the sheer brilliance of Mason kept the game close on the scoreboard.

Vincent Lecavalier was terrible. Matt Read may as well have stayed in Philly. Wayne Simmonds was culpable for bad coverage on the first goal. Bryadon Coburn has continued to look terrible since his return from injury. Nick Grossmann didn't look much better. Sean Couturier had a rough night, including a very bad turnover that led to an odd man rush, and soon after the first goal. RJ Umberger looked like a corpse, until finally, Berube moved him to Couturier's line where they showed some life late in the game.

As bad as the players were, I'm going to toss some blame onto the coach. Berube said, after the game that the only guys that showed up were Giroux, Schenn, Voracek, Laughton and Mason. If that's the case, why did Laughton see 7 minutes of ice time, while Lecavalier (16:24) & Umberger (15:44) kept getting shift after shift? I don't care if they are vets, they're playing poor hockey and have been for awhile.

The coach has to do a better job of putting players in the right situations. That means you don't keep the highly ineffective VinnyBurger pair together. You don;t leave Simmonds at LW when he's clearly uncomfortable there and you have Read on the same line, who has played-and been effective-as a LW extensively over the past few years. You don't take the freshly recalled top prospect and jam him in between Rinaldo & VandeVelde and play him just 4 minutes through the first 2 periods.

It's a Catch-22. The players are, by and large, playing poorly. They have trouble executing routine and basic plays. They blow defensive coverage so often it's a sick joke. They get to running around in their own end and have no energy to win puck battles and push the offense the other way. They lack intensity at times and seemingly can't find it until they are in a deep hole with no way out. The leadership group on the team needs to start demanding more out of the rest of the roster.

But the coach has to do a better job of holding guys accountable and putting the guys he has in a better position to succeed. Lecavalier isn't going to have success playing with Umberger and VandeVelde. Akeson isn't going to be effective if he's with VandeVelde and Rinaldo. Simmonds needs somebody that can get him the puck in the cycling game, and get shots on so he can be a disruptive presence in front of the net. Couturier & Read need to have help in the defensive zone if they're going to improve their offensive games.
- Jsaquella

The Coach is not going to include a player like Laughton in the after game criticism. Laughton wasn't awful, but he looked like a player that isn't ready for the NHL. So he's obviously going to give that player a pass. They're down 2-0 in the game, Lecavaleir is an offensive player. He can score. That's why he's playing more then Laughton is. Not really hard to figure out. And they're going to keep playing Umberger and hope that he gets out of his doldrums. Again, with Raffl hurt, the only other LW's are Umberger and Rinaldo.

There is nothing about that game that is on the coach. He's playing the players that he has.